Monday, May 22, 2006

Show Me Some Merit

Yes, all I am asking for is, merit in your arguments. All these rally and protests are not for equality or merit, it all about caste interests, preserving previleges. Here are my rejoinders to your favorite punch lines and phrases.

1. Youth for equality. A showpiece of total hipocracy. The banner under which the group of upper caste students are united, ridicules the truth about Indian society on the face of it. Since when the youth of various castes in India started being equals? They live in a highly stratified society and they carry around the caste-based identity and complexity in their brains. If they are asked to count the 10 closest associations they had till now, their preference for marriage and their opinion on their role in Indian society, the shield of equality which is the guise of your fight for “caste interests”, will split wide open.
2. Death of Democracy. Voter turn outs have been maxima in states like West Bengal, Kerla and Tamilnadu, averaging around 70-80%. And these states have not witness the anti-reservation protests so far. In states like Bihar, Orissa, MP and Delhi, the doctors are up in arms where 60% turnout is considered very well. You see the difference in sloganeering and reality. In fact, you are ensuring death of democracy, if you believe that a few hundreds of medicos-instigated over a month by some media houses-which can at best grow to few thousands, can influence the rollback of implementation of a bill enjoying full support of more than half a thousand elected representatives of a population of 1.1 billion. Democracy espouses people’s participation in nation building, and reservation is just a step forward that. In fact, if you advocate of democracy you should celebrate any policy which invites diversity and is inclusive. Have you forgotten the slogan, “unity in diversity”.
3. Vote Bank Politics. This is something paradoxical. Terms like “Vote bank politics”, “Populist measures” and “appeasement policy” has been used loosely by the Indian media and subsequently by their elite subscribers to target whatever policy that aims at larger section of the society at the same time does not serve their interest. It is a compulsion of democratic practices that govt. policies must cater to most of its electorate; you can give whatever inappropriate term you can to this invisible feedback loop.
It is even surprising to see that, you-who rebuff the number game in politics do see it an opportunity to show your numbers in some of the elite institutions which have been overtly and covertly kept the higher caste bastions. In contrast to what they sell and what the media is willing to buy, the overwhelming number of the protesters in here does make a point loud and clear. That those sections of backward and most backward castes are visibly absent in the institutes for higher learning and platform of opportunities. That the cake of prosperity and opportunity has been served to those who are privileged.
4. Build Schools, Scrap Reservation. I see a valid point in your arguments here, the need to build nationwide quality basic education. In fact that should have been the first and foremost step of any govt. that came to power after Independence. It would significantly improve the success rate of any affirmative action like reservation or any policy directed towards the masses. The backlog in vacancies, the unfilled seats in reservation category is not result of the loopholes in the reservation policy itself; it is the absence of necessary policy or infrastructure to support it. No policy can work in isolation; it employs the basic infrastructural input from other policies and resources to serve its purpose.
How does strengthening basic education can negate the basic social structure of Indian society which warrants reservation? Both needs to work hand-in-hand to achieve what is aimed at. Besides basic and primary education is as big a challenge as ensuring equal opportunity and social justice are. While the basic education can prepare and increase the competence of the underprivileged students, the discriminatory practices, the cultural difference, the social antagonism the reserved category students face is never compensated for. So reservation remains vital to ensure equal opportunity even with the fundamentally strong pre-college education system.
5. A step backwards. Of course everybody does have the right to be ultra-nationalist overnight. But how many state economic and welfare policies you are critical of? Do you ever read the economic policy espoused by the party in any election manifesto before voting, or the budget analysis at least each year? Or may I ask, do u ever vote? Did you know India was goaded into a non-proliferation trap recently, and yes, about your concern, the primary education was not universal and compulsory till last six years in India and still it is in a shambles now? Have you ever raised a voice against it, marched on a protest? No, oh do these take India foreword??
India could be a developed country only when most its people have access to a minimum standard of life. In a country where mainstream is held by 15% of the population, forget about the prosperity, even market cannot make inroads to rest of the society simply because they don’t have the necessary purchasing power. Land reforms, Basic education, affirmative action everything is held back to perpetuate their plight. It is there the sweet dreams end, not with reservation.
6. Political hogwash. Finally some take on Indian politics. Even if I don’t believe so, if congress has associated its future in the Hindi-heart land with this 27% quota implementation, then my friends no amount of protests would result in a total rollback. My point is, if not total rollback, all your above arguments or punch lines of Merit, Equality, Efficiency and Progress are buried and the middle path just ensures you safeguarding your caste-interests. Politicians have a good knowledge of their electorate, the demography and their potential voters. So if the concern for OBC and commitment of the parliament as suggested by the unanimity of the political parties are genuine, then it can stay. But if it is a political gimmick, you have already lost the ground.

26 comments:

  1. Reservation is eating up the great minds of India, It may have been good 45 years back but it's nothing but the dirty politics now, inviting brain drain and worsening unemployment.

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  2. @ Is it your belief or statement open for discussion ? Did you endorse whatever I said except for reservation ?

    btw, we can talk on the issue of braindrain subjectively, if you wish too

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  3. Reservation even 45 Years back was not good for the country. The results of them are very much visible now. Why extend a failed policy. It is necesaary to get to the root of the problem instead of cosmetic surgery which the reservation is prooving to be. The governement has to provide low cost basic education to the poor which it has failed to provide even after 50 years of independence which has given rise to the problem. Rather to say the govt. has failed in every field (PSU, govt hospitals, sports, edu, elect and power etc) it decided to take in its hands since independence let alone governance.Now it is corrupting the knowledge base of this nation. god knows where these stupid policies will lead this country.

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  4. Let think over it, Do we need reservation for already grown up !!!
    Shouldn't there be any policy at primary level which remove the need of reservation at all.

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  5. lets think over it, There should be such system where there is no need for reservation at such a high level of education. Effort should be made at ground level.

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  6. @saurabh.
    At least we agree on one point that Reservation is not the only policy which "under-delivered", don't we ? So no dig on any single policy as such ?

    The question is if the not reservation, then what is that magic wand to solve the root problem? And more importanly what was 45 years back and continues to be the root of the problem? I think it is caste, if you think it is economic, then my friend we have a very different understanding of the Indian society. Consequently we have different solutions to offer. You may find buyers in the protesters-students,parents faculties and intellecuals alike and I am in company with the parliaments and some learned academics and students, who are caste-sensitive but definitely not caste-prejudiced.

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  7. @Akash,
    I wish, there were. Unfortunately I have not thought or read of any and that of strengthening basic education, my blog dealth with already.

    Instead taking on the subject again, I would give you a reference for Harvard Univ. admission process which will aware you about the necessity of affirmative action-a loose ended version of reservation, if you are curious.

    http://anticaste.blogspot.com/2006/05/admissions-committee-of-harvard_22.html

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  8. prabin first let us understand why the govt is implementing the reservation policy? It is not to remove the caste prejudice or senstivity (which i belive would only be adversely effected by the policy and if the government thinks otherwise then they are again making a big mistake). It is for the economic upliftment of the weeker sections who have been economically week owing to the caste they were born in. Well that is what i belive the root of the problem (let me know if you think otherwise). now to solve this what is required economic,educational an social upliftment, and that i belive would certainly remove any caste prejudice to a large extend. After all there are very few who would question the caste, creed or religion of a economically strong indiviual.I strongly belive success overshadows all such issues. Do you ever realise what caste creed or religion do the succesfull criketers, or filmstars of this country belong too before you start using the products they endorse???????????

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  9. this has the reference to the http://anticaste.blogspot.com/2006/05/admissions-committee-of-harvard_22.html link provided. One really wonders that by being from a OBC catagory alone a candidate inherits theses qualities automatically, and the one from upper classes dose not posses them. The point is you can have all these criteria (Life experience, overcoming obstacles, demonstrating character, and commitment to serve the community, apart from academic performance) for admission and you would not have the hue and cry, its certainly OK but Why CASTE???? All the above criteria are again related to merit after all aren't they???????

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  10. @prabin:

    Isn't ity obvious that reservation is used by the political parties to cover up the fact that they have not been able to provide quality education, and more importantly, access to that quality education to thebackward folks?

    My policy, if a person is "backward", give him the level playing field to compete with others. Don't score the goal for him.

    Lastly, it should not be on the basis of caste at all. Are you trying to tell me that there isn'ta single bhramin who's in a wretched state in some village somewhere? Don't people like that need help too?

    Abolish caste distinctions. Render help in terms of econimic support and infrastructure to these people. Then let them compete with the rest.

    - Saurabh Bijur

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  11. @Saurav,
    Asking question is easier than finding an answer. Finding an answer alternative to the popular perception is harder.Buying an answer agianst the same which u started believing in is nearly impossible. That is what I have found in most newsgroups and online-forums, many of which i have left now. If you are consciously trying to understand the intricate issue of caste, society, eqal oppertunity and affirmative action which is usually bundled up as reservation i can spare time, otherwise I am no one to convince you or vice versa. you can make the same allegations against me but as my original post might give you an idea, I have heard and given good thought and research on the views from the otherside. Hope to hear from you.

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  12. I am not saying that i have found all the solutions to the problem but only that the reservations on basis of cast is certainly the wrong answer to the problem which everyone will realise sooner than later.It is like creating a evil to get rid of another evil.The facilities provided by reservation would only be utilised by the economically very very strong OBC's. As i put it in a very crude way who gives a damn that i belong to a particular caste or race if i am economically strong rich and famous. And even if there are a few, I don,t give a damn to them. Yes we should bring policies to strenghten the OBC,s economically and then you will see a level playing feild in the society where the backword castes would be self equipped to handle all such evils, on there own. If you agree to this we can discuss other more viable solutions for economic strengthning of the OBC,s. Agreed that percentage wise the upper class are more economically sound but you can never strenghten the poor by weekining the rich or uplift the wage earner by crippling the wage payer.What is required by a father is not, leaving a big inheritance, but equiping his sons/daughters to earn the same.

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  13. The solutions: 1) Reservation at the level of KG and class 1 in all schools with full scholorship and full here means full till class 12th. 2) special caoching centers for the OBC's aspiring for cometetive exams. May be arranged in IITs and IIMs, AIIMs with borading lodging facility and completly free of cost. Here it must be stressed that monetary upport that to 101% is required else all efforts would be in vein. The problem is the ones most deserving can hardly afford the educational cost, and education is an added libility on them as it robs them of an earning member of the familiy. Now how to fund the project. Well if Govt can fund increasing the seats in institutions then why not this. Let the big industrialist and NGO's come forward to fund it. If required put a educational cess on all private school fee. The underlying logic behind the solution is to strengthen the educational base of the OBC's so that they can themselves be economically sound and take on the rest of the society. Removing the cast prejudice and senstivity would follow automatically. And lastly even if they don't OBC's would give a damn. After all we all are prejudiced that the Indian's are better than the rest may be East or West. Who Bothers

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  14. @Sourabh,
    thanks for giving an alternative idea on reservation. I would take your contradicting your previous post in most positive sense. The basic assumption of your 3.20AM post is not very different from the pro-reservationists' premises.

    I did not address your earlier questions because those seemed me totally "orkutian". Btw, both of the stuffs you suggested are already working in some places. You know in America, 150 modes of affirmative actions are practised. So while agreeing all with your immediate last post, I request to give some more thoughts.

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  15. I have a simple question.

    What about those people from financially well to do background passing their degree from IIT, and using their reservation again to rush into IIM ? Can we be that shameless, where people from other privileged class are struggling hard from some remotest college of India without much facility, and exposure complete their degree education and compete with the people from IIT? Is not it a criminal offence ?

    Chinmaya..

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  16. @Chinmaya
    I hope you are 'the chinmaya'.

    I guess even if you dont take reservation into consideration, yours is a pertinent question. For, I believe a student educated in IIT would be having an edge over that of other not-even-avarage college. Additional measures, if possible with a scientific attempt, should be taken to award additional scores to compare their ability and aptitude.It simply is a criminal offence otherwise, isnt it?

    I hope, you must agree that I am not adverse to review of anything, not even reservation, not the concept of merit/excellence although I am very skeptical of the way it would be handled. My point in this particular blog was loud and clear.

    That, dear anti-reservationists, you cannot hide the caste-devision in (y)our society in the closet and claim everybody is equal hence either 'no reservation' (read affirmative action) or 'let it be on economic basis'. That, caste did and continues to, play a cultural and economic (dis)advantage and in any policy aimed at providing equal oppertunity, caste must be one of the most important factor to take cognizance of.

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  17. I meant i was not averse to review.....

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  18. Prabin I believe that a completely level playing field is an utopian concept. We all have an edge over the other in some field just because we belong to a particular society cast creed race culture even nationality. A person studying in Bijnor or Doiwalla can never get the same educational facility as the ones sitting in Delhi or Bombay. Different level of parents’ education not taking in account their economic strength in itself tilts the balance in favor of one child than the other when it comes to education, because at least 50% of educational support has to be provided by parents today for a child to excel. So one of the ways out I feel is just try to attain economic playing field and other things would have less impact as every thing can be bought by money (You bet everything except life). That’s why I advocated reservation at the level where the so called inequalities are minimum and all candidates can be treated equal on merit assuming god did his bit and did not play dice, when distributing merit. Senstivites and prejudices can never be done away with only reduced, look into yourself and you’ll find the same in you too. I myself have always (may be wrongly) believed that scorpio’s have an edge over the other when it comes to logic and reasoning. Call it discrimination, cry out loud, start a stir, :- again who bothers? See even you don't bother getting the speeling of Saurabh Correct! after all whats in a name and lot less in surnames.

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  19. Abhinav Gupta Wrote this in his blog comments http://abhinav.org/blog/2006/05/22/no-quota-no-quota/
    Hi All,

    Prabin, I read your whole article and then only I put that comment, no doubt your words are great, and I somewhat agree with you, but just wanted to say that this menace is really eating up our society and the youth. If you don’t think youth for equality is worth being on the road then why aren’t those on the road who think they should be. I don’t want to burn any effigy, I don’t want to shout any slogans, but what I want Indian citizens to realize is what’s going on in our community. That’s the fact that career of so many has been affect by this reservation politics and we have to accept it. This is also a fact that reservation has been good for so many during last half a century. But isn’t half a century enough for this positive discrimination (so called). I have so many, so many means at least 25 friends from ST/ST and OBC and we are really nice friends. My one of the best friends is from OBC category, but I couldn’t understand why he didn’t want to take advantage of that. Had he used that he could have been in some good govt college and god knows could have been holding a reputed government job, but he didn’t do that. As far as I understand he is against the quota politics and a strong supporter of equality amongst youth and future of India. See, I am not saying that the talent is there only with so called upper-cast people only. It IS there in so called SC/ST and OBCs also (I don’t know what makes me use words like SC/ST/OBC, I never used them earlier). They are also touching heights with or without using the reservation and I have so many examples about the people who deserved the best selling popcorn. See this is not at all a fight, this is a voice against what they (we) think is wrong. We will have forget what is ST, we will have to forget what is SC and we will have to forget what is OBC, can’t we think about our nation’s betterment? Can’t we think about the highest scorers who are made good for nothing forcefully. I have no bad thoughts about what “You call lower-casts” but we will really have to give it a thought again and that’s why I think the people who are on the road are not doing any bad thing at all.

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  20. My reply
    -----------------------------------
    Abhinav,
    nice to know that there is not total disagreement.
    “If you don’t…” here I suppose you aint naive to ask the pro-reservationists, so I presume you are asking them, who shoulder the resposibility of Merit and Equality in the society to take on. If so, I guess we are discussing two very crucial and interrealted issue.
    1. The concept of Merit
    2. Equality
    And to the best of my knowledge, the current system of preparing Merit List is considered seriously flawed. Please read http://anticaste.blogspot.com/2006/05/admissions-committee-of-harvard_22.html So the intelligentsia is deeply devided here. There is no concensus among the faculties in many institutes,made pubic by some of them, that caste-based reservation did or may dilute merit.
    On equality I quote a former CJI, “To treat unequals as equal is same injustice as treating equla as unquals.
    When you agree with the importance of reservation, I also agree that it should not have been perpetuated this way. But I wont like to go by a timeframe. Rather I would, of course by an unprejudiced expert group, set some parameters of inter-caste inequalities and phase out reservation if there are no significant differences between various castes. See, here the premise I take is- ours is a caste-riddled society till date, I hope that you will agree upon.

    The caste structure is not so easy to forget. In fact, being caste-blind is not the solution, being caste-sensitive is. Btw, since we agreed on something, we need not agree on everything. Lets now agree on some disagreements too )

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  21. (the above reply is posted in response to the comment below by Abhinav gupta in his blog http://abhinav.org/blog/2006/05/22/no-quota-no-quota/

    Hi All,

    Prabin, I read your whole article and then only I put that comment, no doubt your words are great, and I somewhat agree with you, but just wanted to say that this menace is really eating up our society and the youth. If you don’t think youth for equality is worth being on the road then why aren’t those on the road who think they should be. I don’t want to burn any effigy, I don’t want to shout any slogans, but what I want Indian citizens to realize is what’s going on in our community. That’s the fact that career of so many has been affect by this reservation politics and we have to accept it. This is also a fact that reservation has been good for so many during last half a century. But isn’t half a century enough for this positive discrimination (so called). I have so many, so many means at least 25 friends from ST/ST and OBC and we are really nice friends. My one of the best friends is from OBC category, but I couldn’t understand why he didn’t want to take advantage of that. Had he used that he could have been in some good govt college and god knows could have been holding a reputed government job, but he didn’t do that. As far as I understand he is against the quota politics and a strong supporter of equality amongst youth and future of India. See, I am not saying that the talent is there only with so called upper-cast people only. It IS there in so called SC/ST and OBCs also (I don’t know what makes me use words like SC/ST/OBC, I never used them earlier). They are also touching heights with or without using the reservation and I have so many examples about the people who deserved the best selling popcorn. See this is not at all a fight, this is a voice against what they (we) think is wrong. We will have forget what is ST, we will have to forget what is SC and we will have to forget what is OBC, can’t we think about our nation’s betterment? Can’t we think about the highest scorers who are made good for nothing forcefully. I have no bad thoughts about what “You call lower-casts” but we will really have to give it a thought again and that’s why I think the people who are on the road are not doing any bad thing at all.

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  22. Good to see consensus emerging on most of the fundamental views. But now we must give some thought to the fact that knowledge and talent is not limited to the ones studying or having qualifications form institutes having 2I’s. Even the likes of Telgi’s have shown there talent may be in the wrong field. The people in power sitting in the parliament are I feel one of the most talented people of this country (give and take a few exceptions). They have given you reservation in this form to placate the backward classes and bet me very soon they would some how or the other would soon increase the number of seats to placate the forward classes winning the masses in their favor. The core issue untouched :- how does a financially weak OBC candidate finance his stay and studies in the IIM, IIT Or premier medical institute. He thinks twice before buying a calculator how does he get a laptop. Yaa the American solution :- We can give you THE BOMB, F-16’s,the super computer and even send your man in space but not the technology.So much for anti and pro reservationist's

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  23. Where these Upper caste pseudo humanitarians have gone when protest against reducing MBA course amount happened sometime before.

    Is it really the reservation for rich people that already exists in each and every fields needs real protest - from Primary school to IIM, IIT?

    Will the Youth for Upper caste struggle against this?

    No never, But they are doing the opposite. They are suggesting privatisation of Education.

    Will the Youth For Brahmins Struggle for Free education to all and Employment to all?

    Or have they ever lent their voice for the oppressed people?

    But now they come and argue with us as if they are very much concerned about the whole Indian society.

    A simple way to identify this Pseudo Patriots is what they were doing when really people struggling for their rights(including Education, Employment etc).

    Whatever they suggests are their solution. Why should we bother about that.

    If they are sooooo honest to the solutions they are suggesting then they have to first struggle for it.

    Do any of their protest show the solutions they suggest except Anti reservation boards?

    The kind of protest itself shows their upper caste arrogance. Sweeper, cobbler.

    Will they protest as depicting themself as Archagar, Pujari?

    Will they protest as depicting themslef as Lavatory cleaners?

    Never.....

    The one and only pshycology behind the Anti reservation bill is Upper caste arrogance. Nothing more than that.

    For that only reason we have to hit at them as hard as possible.

    supporter for Anti-reservation protest could be depicted as a wolf crying for a drenching goat in rain(requesting the goat to get inside its cave, so that dinner could be made).

    If you look at the arguments put forth against me by YEF-Meerut, you would understand who are behind this pseudo Patriots:

    http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=28070471&postID=114875125674329328


    You can find my views on reservation at my page:

    http://kaipulla.blogspot.com/2006/05/reservation-haunts-againmore-teeth.html

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  24. The success of reservation can be seen in Tamilnadu. Where 67% reservation is implimented without even a single protest.

    And today the caste domination is somehow(not completely) leveled.

    Intellectual, writters, Columnists of different caste (including brahmins) criticising north for the 60 years backward ness in protesting reservation.

    Tamil Nadu supports reservation. and 40 years of history it has on reservation. No need to say Tamil nadu is develped than any other state that denied reservation.

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  25. Defenitely "MERIT" is a term with lucid meanings on different occassions. The so called propounders of merit are not willing to agree the fact that other than the govt sponcered "resrvation" in 90 % of our colleges these reseravations based on other criteria retains.
    1)why the youth for equality and other no quota propounders dont come up with slogans and effigies where "money" can reserve seats for a student? why dont they oppose quotas for NRI s? why dont they oppose quotas based on community( a college set up by a community gives seats to its community members)? if u argue aginest quota do it againest all quotas.. other argumentsd are hypocracy

    2)So many people seem to say that "reservation even 45 years back was not good for the country".I dont from where they got these haighly sophisticated data. The public education system to the so called SC-ST- OBC people could be utilised fruitfully only after independance that too decades later. and most people here believe that all backward people started getting the results of reservation from 1947 agust 16 onwards..3) vote bank politics..yes defenitely poloiticians have to. The most poeple who votes for those inside the loksabha are the backward people. So they have to be "populous". cater vote bank politics. Those eho dont vote and makes comments aginest democracy has no moral right to say a single word on it. but india allows freedom of speech.
    4) The states where reservation system has been implemeted successfully shows that there the social system is in a better condition than other parts of the country. The socio- economical backwardness are rectified in a better way(kerala, tamilnadu, WB etc)
    5)So many speak about alternate meathods and ways..but in this post independant India, and after60 yrears of independance can anyone show an example for the alternate ways in practice? but who will do it? the govt should and the theory providers will not be there. So its up to the poeples representatives to decide what they should do.

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  26. its only a minority who are making all those hues and cries on this reservation because they get the attention of media. the people who wants reservation are silent since no media ever want to publish anything for that. So people who wants help froem govt put thier vote and send reperesntatives to loksabha. Those who dont vote cry that its populous.Even though backward people constitutes 80% of indian population educated among them are few due to the social evils that made the constituion framers to reservation. moreover theres not evena single upper caste communtiy who enjoyed reservation of other forms in the entire history of india. eduaction was only accessible to brahmins for centuries(more than 2500 years)

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